Summary of Soeren Hansen: Why wind and solar will not work | Tom Nelson Pod #110

00:00:00 - 00:50:00

In this video, retired chemical engineer Soren Hansen argues that wind and solar energy are not the ideal form of power to meet energy demands. Hansen explains that while wind and solar power generation can match total consumption over a year, it cannot replace traditional power plants entirely due to the variability of energy production and its inability to match consumption minute by minute or hour by hour. Hansen discusses several proposed solutions to the problems of wind and solar energy being unreliable, including energy storage through batteries or hydrogen, but highlights scalability challenges and costs. He also examines the material input required for each method of energy extraction and compares it to the energy return on investment, indicating that while coal, gas, and nuclear power require very few materials for a terawatt hour of power, wind and solar panels require a much larger amount of materials per square meter to obtain a unit of energy produced. Despite the high demand for wind and solar power, the energy return on investment is below the lower acceptable limit, meaning that after construction, we won't get any energy out of wind and solar. Hansen argues that instead, nuclear power and eventually fusion will be the most suitable for the long run, and fossil fuels can continue to be used until nuclear and fusion power are available.

• 00:00:00 In this section of the transcript, Soren Hansen, a retired chemical engineer from Denmark, explains why wind and solar energy will not work to meet energy demands. Based on an official Danish report, Hansen shows the variation of energy demand over 24 hours and how it could be met by traditional power plants, including nuclear, coal-fired, and gas-fired ones. However, wind and solar energy production varies and does not match the consumption minute to minute or hour to hour during the whole day or throughout three-week periods, called "doldrums." Such extended low energy production periods require additional equipment to meet energy needs. Therefore, although wind and solar power generation can match total consumption over a year, it cannot replace traditional power plants entirely.
• 00:05:00 In this section, the speaker discusses several proposed solutions to the problems of wind and solar energy being unreliable. The first solution proposed is to have a more flexible demand, but the speaker notes that this will only be a small help. Another proposed solution is regional cooperation, where connected regions can support each other when the wind is low and the sun is not shining. However, the speaker highlights the problems with this proposal, including the need for expensive installations and a large extra investment. The speaker also mentions the use of biomass, but this solution is not viable due to its high cost. Finally, the speaker discusses the issue of energy storage and how it could be a solution but highlights the challenges of scaling this technology to meet the energy demands of a city or country.
• 00:10:00 In this section, Soeren Hansen discusses the challenges of relying on renewable energy sources for large-scale electricity production. He explains that while batteries are a good option for storing electricity, the amount of energy they can store is what matters most, not just their power capacity. He gives an example of the world's largest battery in California with a power capacity of 400 megawatts but an energy capacity of only 1600 megawatt hours, which is much smaller than the 30,000 megawatt hours of electricity consumed per hour in California. Therefore, Hansen argues that relying solely on renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power, or even supplementing with batteries, will not be sufficient to meet the world's energy needs.
• 00:15:00 In this section, Soeren Hansen discusses the challenges of relying on wind and solar power and the potential solution of energy storage through batteries or hydrogen. He presents a model of wind and solar supply in California and how a battery system would be required to cover the differences in supply and demand. He concludes that a battery system capable of storing 25,000 gigawatt-hours would cost $15 trillion USD, well beyond the gross domestic product of California. Although hydrogen could be a more viable solution, it also presents its own challenges and uncertainties.
• 00:20:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the challenges of handling hydrogen for use in cars. Storing hydrogen requires increasing pressure tremendously, up to 700 bars, which means a volume of 150 liters, almost four times that of a gasoline tank. There is also a loss of energy in the process, with 20-30% of the power lost during the electrolysis process, and a further 15-20% loss during handling and storage of the hydrogen. A safety issue with hydrogen leakages is also highlighted, as hydrogen tends to leak out of anything, and once leaked, it poses an explosion risk. Due to these handling problems, combining hydrogen with something else and creating Power to X solutions, such as methanol production, is suggested.
• 00:25:00 In this section, Soeren Hansen discusses the possibility of using wind and solar power to fuel a methanol plant in Denmark. However, the problem with wind and solar is their variability, which makes them unsuitable for use in chemical production that requires stable operating conditions. The solution could be to store excess power in tanks using the Power-to-X technology, which could be used to provide backup power for wind and solar. However, the cost of energy remains a factor, and Hansen notes that solar and wind are not always the cheapest options, with coal and nuclear being more costly.
• 00:30:00 In this section, Soeren Hansen discusses the limitations of wind and solar energy, highlighting how the Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCOE) is only a partial story. Hansen cites German energy economists Cowan Smith, who posit that the cost of a complete solution, which includes environmental costs, maintenance, land use, decommissioning, transmission lines, backup energy sources, and possibly storage, has to be added to the costs of wind and solar energy. Hansen also examines the material input required for each method of energy extraction and compares it to the energy return on investment, indicating that while coal, gas, and nuclear power require very few materials for a terawatt hour of power, wind and solar panels require a much larger amount of materials per square meter to obtain a unit of energy produced.
• 00:35:00 In this section, the speaker explains that transitioning to green energy is dependent on the use of fossil fuels, and the more we rely on wind turbines and solar cells, the more fossil fuel we will need to use. Additionally, an electric system based entirely on wind and solar will require a lot of additional equipment, such as energy storage, surplus to cover geographic differences, and an oversized grid. Despite the high demand for wind and solar, the energy return on investment is below the lower acceptable limit, meaning that after construction, we won't get any energy out of wind and solar, and building more wind turbines and solar panels won't increase energy production. As a result, the speaker concludes that he doesn't believe in solar and wind and doesn't think they will have a significant role in the future of energy technologies.
• 00:40:00 In this section, the speaker argues that wind and solar power are not the ideal form of power and instead, nuclear power and eventually fusion will be the most suitable for the long run. The speaker also mentions that fossil fuels can continue to be used until nuclear and fusion power are available. He also touches on the need for hydro power and the potential for hydro power in Africa. Additionally, he explains that the economy is based on the salary of people handling and producing energy sources, and with an energy return on investment of just two, every second person in the world would need to be working on energy supply.
• 00:45:00 In this section, Soeren Hansen discusses the fallacy that wind and solar energy are reliable. People are often shocked to learn that even if you fill up the North Sea with wind turbines, you cannot always count on having power because it fluctuates wildly from day to day. Hansen points out that Denmark is only able to use wind and solar power because they are saved by Norway and Sweden, who give them hydroelectric and nuclear power. Furthermore, if Denmark were to electrify the entire country and use electric cars and heating, they would need more backup power that nobody can deliver. Hansen believes that before trying to make the entire world powered by wind and solar, we should at least get modern factories powered by off-grid wind and solar going first and prove that it works.
• 00:50:00 In this section, Soeren Hansen explains how companies like Apple and Microsoft can buy carbon credits by financing projects that prevent deforestation or store carbon dioxide underground. In Denmark, a project is underway to store CO2 underground in old oil fields, which costs around $300 to $500 per ton. While it generates no value, Microsoft is planning to offset its CO2 emissions through buying these tons of stored CO2. Moreover, Hansen points out that the processes involved in the storing project are quite expensive, including heating, cooling, and monitoring.