Summary of Joscha Bach Λ John Vervaeke on Consciousness, Idealism, and Computation [Theolocution]

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00:00:00 - 01:00:00

In this video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is not something that is innately limited, and that all humans are born with a certain amount of wisdom. Vervaeke counters that solipsism is a property of some people and that Trump might be an example of a solipsist politician.

00:00:00 In this video, Joscha Bach, a cognitive scientist recognized in the field of artificial intelligence, and John Vervaeke, a professor of cognitive science at the University of Toronto, discuss ontology and epistemology. They discuss how these two branches of philosophy are related, and how consciousness is one topic that ties them both together. Towards the end of the video, Bach and Vervaeke discuss software as analogous to physical law, and whether or not they agree with this perspective.
00:05:00 The authors discuss the definitions of consciousness, sentience, and mind, and discuss how they see these concepts as being interconnected. They also discuss how John Vervaeke's work is a valuable contribution to cognitive science.
00:10:00 In this video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness and sentience. Bach defines consciousness as the ability of a system to relate to its environment and to learn about itself. Vervaeke defines sentience as the ability of a system to size up its situation and be aware of it. Bach and Vervaeke agree that there is not a clear definition of what "mind" is, and that getting a clear understanding of what that question is one of the tasks of cognitive science.
00:15:00 In this video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is a two-fold concept that includes access consciousness and phenomenal consciousness, and that the function question is essential to answering the nature question. Vervaeke argues that consciousness does not have a definitive function and that it is difficult to answer the nature question.
00:20:00 According to Joscha Bach, there are two aspects to experience: what is the difference between experience and measurement and what makes them experiential. In early work on robotics, they taught robots to play soccer and found that the pixels below the ball were more orange than the pixels at the bottom of the ball. They needed to be more intelligent in order to solve the problem, and this is what led to the development of qualia. Qualia is not simply a certain wavelength or a certain RGB value, it is an interpretation that is qualitatively bound to the context in which it is measured. The property of redness is not just a certain value, it is given in the context of a red object. The interpretation of surface properties in the stationary way of an object is also a property that attaches to an object in a certain context. Redness is the property that is shared by all the right objects and you cannot separate it from this in the processing. When looking at a face, what the person sees is not just a geometrical arrangement of features, but they can't stare at a face for long enough until the faceness of the face disappears and the only thing that's left is the geometrical arrangement. In this way, they can start decon
00:25:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach agrees that perception and interpretation are intimately linked, and that the experience of faces is a case in point. Vervaeke points out that the 'realness' of faces is an implicit normativity that has epistemological and ontological implications. Bach questions whether perception is simply a projection, and whether the ontological dimension of reality might be more complex than we imagine. They further discuss the Christian interpretation of the Genesis story, and its apparent connection to the ontological assumption that the physical and mental universes are separate.
00:30:00 In this video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss the relationship between consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach and Vervaeke both agree that the ontology we build is not arbitrary, and that the separation of consciousness and matter is not final. They also discuss the problem of causality and the ontological implications of dualism.
00:35:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss the philosophical difficulties of ontology, particularly the problem of dualism and its relationship to the physical world. They discuss the two main options for resolving these difficulties: the physical universe is either mechanistically governed or we are living in a dream. Bach argues that the former is more likely, while Vervaeke argues that the latter is more likely.
00:40:00 In this YouTube video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke talk about consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach posits that we live in a dream, but this dream must be dreamed by a mind in a higher plane of existence because it necessitates functionality such as the interaction of elements in a dream. Vervaeke agrees that what we experience when we look at brains is generated in non-random fashion in the parent reality, but he argues that this does not mean that we cannot know the physics possible. They then discuss the problem of skepticism, with Vervaeke saying that he does not see it as a problem because he thinks that when I am skeptical, I am only questioning my own knowledge.
00:45:00 In this YouTube video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is not something that is innately limited, and that all humans are born with a certain amount of wisdom. Vervaeke counters that solipsism is a property of some people and that Trump might be an example of a solipsist politician.
00:50:00 Joscha Bach discusses the relationship between rationality, idealism, and computation, saying that rationality is not always an object but an archetype that exists as a strategy for achieving certain goals in a complex world.
00:55:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss the idea of epistemic boundedness and how it affects the way we thinking about consciousness and intelligence. They also touch on the idea of mysterianism, which is a position in cognitive science that says that something cannot be understood if it cannot be understood by norm Chomsky. Bach and Vervaeke ultimately disagree about whether or not mysterianism is a useful way to think about the way our experience works.

01:00:00 - 02:00:00

In the video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is bound by some normative notion of rationality, and that the limits of our working memory limit the complexity of our physics simulations. Vervaeke argues that the Cartesian demon is a false worry, and that consciousness, reason, and intelligence allow us to access reality. They discuss how physical things are not actually conscious, but everything exists to an approximate degree. They also discuss how logic and computation are the same regardless of the language used to describe them.

01:00:00 In this video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is bound by some normative notion of rationality, and Vervaeke says that priori reasoning is not always stable.
01:05:00 The speaker discusses some of the central problems of consciousness and intelligence, and how they are linked. He points out that while consciousness and intelligence may be real, they cannot be known with certainty and must be posited. He argues that rationality requires self-awareness and intelligence, and thus they are just as real as anything else.
01:10:00 In this video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. They discuss how physical things are not actually conscious, but everything exists to an approximate degree. They also discuss how logic and computation are the same regardless of the language used to describe them.
01:15:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss the ontology of physics and how it differs from the ontology of reality. Bach contends that the objects and beings in reality are as real as the science itself and that we need to assume the reality of objects and beings for the practice of physics.
01:20:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that the limits of our working memory limit the complexity of our physics simulations, and that in order to experience a world in which light switches work, we need to store some state outside of our mind. Vervaeke argues that the Cartesian demon is a false worry, and that consciousness, reason, and intelligence allow us to access reality.
01:25:00 The speaker talks about how he believes that the most real things are those that are accessible to apriori reasoning. He also discusses how the Platonic idea of archetypes applies to the way we perceive the world. He and the speaker have a deep agreement on this topic.
01:30:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss Plato's idea that the physical reality is less real than idealized concepts, and how this applies to the current philosophical debate about consciousness and meaning. Bach points out that the position taken by cognitive scientists who are also computer scientists is not the consensus position, and that there is evidence that many thinkers in the field are converging on similar ideas. He expresses gratitude to those who criticize his ideas, and says that he is grateful for those who point out inconsistencies in his thinking.
01:35:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach finds that there is convergence between his ideas and those of other philosophers, but he doesn't believe that his ideas are original. Vervaeke agrees that there is convergence, but notes that the disagreements are largely happening at the level of epistemology. Wisdom for helping to address these issues, according to Bach, would be for the various disciplines to pursue integration rather than fragmentation, and for scientists and philosophers to connect their work to the more general issue of how humans fit into a scientific worldview.
01:40:00 The scientist Joscha Bach discusses how personality traits play into a scientist's work, how the work can be viewed as a form of employment, and how the third group of scientists, the "crazy" scientists, can be interesting and helpful.
01:45:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation, and Bach argues that the university is not the best place to explore these topics. Bach proposes bringing dialogue into the university as a way to address the institutional issues.
01:50:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach notes that for the most part, why this is the way it is is because we need alternate ways of funding and organizing to keep on with this. He also makes a case for the crazies, citing their greater ability to see things more clearly and better than the average person. He argues that while it may be a weakness, being honest is a good thing because it allows others to see how capable they are.
01:55:00 The speaker discusses how he believes that there is an urgency to explore consciousness, idealism, and computation in order to address the increasing rates of suffering. He also discusses how academic institutions should be more engaged in this dialogue and how practical tasks need to be undertaken in order to make this exploration more attractive to a wider audience. He also argues that the goal of helping people should not conflict with the goal of investigating reality.

02:00:00 - 02:55:00

In this YouTube video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is a function that realizes higher order relevance, and Vervaeke responds that intelligence is also a function that realizes higher order relevance. If this is true, then intelligence and consciousness are inseparable, and at some level, all intelligent systems are conscious.

02:00:00 In this YouTube video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that there is a presumption in the question of what is real, and that this presumption is what motivates people to seek knowledge and wisdom. Vervaeke agrees, and adds that there is a value to discovering what is real and to transforming oneself. They both agree that the civilization that we are part of is not projecting itself into the future, and that this is reflected in the lack of shared purpose and plans among the population.
02:05:00 Joscha Bach, a philosopher, and John Vervaeke, a computer scientist, discuss the idea of a "meaning crisis," or the difficulty in finding meaning in a world that seems to be deteriorating. They discuss the importance of pursuing truth and integrity, and the need to develop new forms of wisdom in order to create a better future.
02:10:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach suggests that we can learn from historical figures who have successfully transitioned into a new era, and Vervaeke discusses the role of consciousness in information processing. Both discuss ideas that have changed Bach's perspective on neural computation, and they encourage others to do the same.
02:15:00 Joscha Bach, a philosopher and computer scientist, discusses the idea that consciousness is a government, and how this idea changes his thinking about normativity, the relationship between truth, goodness, and beauty, and the impact of technology on cognition.
02:20:00 The speaker discusses the relationship between the true good and the beautiful, and how they are not necessarily one and the same. He goes on to say that space-time is an apparent thing at a certain level, and that it is not necessary to have a theory of everything in order for evolution to take place.
02:25:00 Joscha Bach discusses the existence of levels of reality, arguing that things do not only emerge from the quantum realm, but also are constrained by law-like features of reality. He admits that he does not know what it would mean to say that two plus two equals four is real, but believes that it is possible that the universe exists within a glass pattern sphere.
02:30:00 Joscha Bach discusses the Chinese Room thought experiment, arguing that Searle's argument about multiple realizability does not settle the issue. Cyril argues that things that are multiply realizable may nevertheless be attributed, and that this leaves the argument open to falsification.
02:35:00 The video discusses Joscha Bach's and John Vervaeke's views on consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach and Vervaeke argue that multiple realizability is a stent and that consciousness and idealism are related to computationalism. They believe that software is a physical law and that the ontological status of our mental states is different from the ontological states of physical things.
02:40:00 In his talk, Joscha Bach Λ John Vervaeke discusses consciousness, idealism, and computation. He argues that, even if the Chinese brain does not produce consciousness, the individual identities of the Chinese people and their knowledge does not interfere with its emulation of the functionality of individual neurons. This means that swirl has a strong anti-functionalist position, and that there would be a locked-in epithelialism that would helplessly watch its body make statements in favor of or against epiphanicalism but there would be no causal relationship between the epithelialism.
02:45:00 In the video, Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach argues that consciousness is a function that realizes higher order relevance, and Vervaeke responds that intelligence is also a function that realizes higher order relevance. If this is true, then intelligence and consciousness are inseparable, and at some level, all intelligent systems are conscious.
02:50:00 Joscha Bach, a philosopher, argues that consciousness may not be a fundamental property of the universe, but rather something that can be replicated on a silicon-based computer.
02:55:00 Joscha Bach and John Vervaeke discuss consciousness, idealism, and computation. Bach says he is not an idealist, but comes close to being one. He also says that his goal with the Theo locution is to help people understand his discussion better. Vervaeke says that people have a difficult time understanding Bach and his discussion because it is steeped in cognitive scientific jargon and terminology that is unfamiliar to most. He also says that, with Yoshibok, Bach makes analogies between computer science and reality in a way that is unique to him. Bach and Vervaeke agree that it would be helpful for Marten to break down sentences for people who are having a difficult time following them.