Summary of Building with Zero-Knowledge Proofs: Pluto and Personae

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In this YouTube video titled "Building with Zero-Knowledge Proofs: Pluto and Personae," the hosts and guest speakers explore various aspects of zero-knowledge proofs (ZK proofs) and their applications. They discuss the challenges and misconceptions surrounding ZK proofs, the potential for new and unique applications, the development of higher-level language ecosystems for ZKPs, and the importance of privacy in financial transactions and online interactions. The speakers also share their personal journeys and experiences in the field of zero knowledge and cryptography. Overall, they emphasize the need for clear definitions, a common language, and continuous experimentation to unlock the full potential of ZK proofs and revolutionize the future of the internet.

00:00:00 In this section, the host introduces the guest speakers, Luxman and Tracy, who are both working in the field of zero knowledge proofs. Luxman talks about their experiments with different applications that allow people to make zero knowledge proofs on the chain. Tracy, on the other hand, discusses their work on making Starks more accessible to application developers through their platform called Pluto. They aim to simplify the process of building applications with zero knowledge proofs by creating a user-friendly experience. The host also mentions that both Luxman and Tracy have gone through similar product ideation processes as early stage founders, which they will touch on later in the conversation. Before diving into use cases, they start with a simple introduction to zero knowledge and zero knowledge proofs.
00:05:00 In this section, the speaker discusses zero-knowledge proofs (ZK proofs) and their applications. ZK proofs decouple computation from specific time and location, allowing for commitments about correctness and privacy while being more concise. ZK proofs enable the proof of execution of Turing decidable programs in a smaller size. They also allow for proving a computation without revealing everything about the inputs, which could have profound implications for online communication and coordination. However, there are misconceptions about ZK proofs, with some conflating terms and treating "zero knowledge" as a vague concept. Different applications of ZK, such as scalability and privacy, have their own specific terminology, leading to confusion among researchers and founders in the space. Overall, ZK proofs hold promise for various applications but require clear definitions and a common language to facilitate better understanding and collaboration.
00:10:00 In this section, the speakers discuss the evolving language and hype around zero-knowledge proofs (ZK) and how it is masking the broader renaissance in cryptography. They highlight that ZK is being used as a buzzword for advancements in cryptography, even beyond privacy and security. They also explore the potential applications of new cryptography, such as private interactions between parties on the internet and longer statements about computation on blockchains. The conversation then transitions to their personal journeys in ZK, with Luxman sharing his early experiments with snarks and his work at the Ethereum foundation, while Tracy talks about her fascination with Ethereum and how it led her back to exploring zero-knowledge proofs.
00:15:00 In this section, the speaker discusses their interest in exploring the idea of recording online activities on a verifiable chain and allowing users to make zero-knowledge statements about their actions. They mention the importance of understanding users who are already experiencing this future and wanting to create tools for them to speak pseudonymously and participate in governance. The speaker also highlights the significance of multi-address usage and how it differs from the past assumption of one user, one address. They discuss their experiments with message board platforms and the challenges of expressing opinions in governance due to governance fatigue and the energy required to figure out how to express oneself.
00:20:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the idea of creating a credible pseudonym that allows people to speak more freely while maintaining a level of credibility. They mention the experiments known as KYANoun and Nims, which utilize zero-knowledge proofs to create reusable pseudonyms that enable continuous expression and interaction on forums. However, they also acknowledge that there is still room for improvement in terms of interaction and consistency of identity. The speaker emphasizes the importance of constantly evaluating and iterating on these experiments to ensure the best user experience. In a different segment, another speaker shares their journey from working in big tech companies to becoming interested in crypto and blockchain. They describe how they found the programmability and flexibility of decentralized finance (DeFi) to be more exciting and creatively stimulating compared to the limitations of the traditional financial system.
00:25:00 In this section, the speaker discusses their early involvement in the crypto community and their experience with Nouns, a project focused on long-term intentions and community-building rather than just token prices. They also share an interesting anecdote about selling a valuable NFT anonymously over the internet and the complexities involved in the transaction. The speaker then transitions to discussing their company and how they became interested in zero-knowledge proofs (ZK). They describe ZK as a mysterious and previously unexplored aspect of crypto that they found intriguing and eventually became passionate about. The speaker believes that ZK has the potential to revolutionize the future of the internet, especially in relation to digital money and the ability to express complex transactions in a concise and secure manner.
00:30:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the evolution of zero-knowledge proofs (ZK) and the current focus of innovation in the field. They mention that in the past five years, significant progress has been made in the research of ZK, making it verifiable and performant. However, they note that while many big blockchain companies are working on ZK for applications like privacy rollups and privacy blockchains, there seems to be less focus on exploring new and unique aspects of ZK. The speaker expresses excitement about the potential for new and novel applications of ZK, mentioning that there is already good research available to build these new things. When asked about where the innovation in ZK is happening, the speaker suggests that the focus is primarily on improving the performance of ZK proving systems at the software level. They discuss the importance of fast 48 transformations and multiplications and how current systems are exploring different ways to optimize these operations. While not having followed much at the hardware level, the speaker acknowledges that there may be interesting hardware developments that they haven't paid attention to. They also mention the use of lookup tables in ZK programs as a way to speed up certain operations and discuss the potential for scaling ZK systems and VMs. Overall, they suggest that the majority of attention and capital in the field is focused on scaling VM operations, but they believe there is a lot of potential for innovation in ZK applications and encourage further exploration in that area.
00:35:00 In this section, the speakers discuss the challenges and hurdles developers may face when building applications using zero-knowledge proofs (ZKPs). They highlight security and performance as the major concerns. Mistakes in ZKPs can invalidate the entire application, so ensuring the circuit is fully constrained is crucial. Furthermore, generating snarks for complex statements can be time-consuming, limiting what can be done within a snark. They also address the issue of security bugs, particularly soundness bugs, which are difficult to detect and can be problematic in a system reliant on ZKPs. The speakers express concern about the inability to identify faulty proofs until after the fact, making ZK auditing essential. Additionally, the talk touches on the emergence of new languages, such as Noir and LUR, which fall under the category of recursive snark languages and may offer technical advancements in ZKP development.
00:40:00 In this section, the speakers discuss the developments and future of higher-level language ecosystems for zero-knowledge proofs (ZKPs). They mention several languages, such as circom, Noir, zakres, Cairo, lur, and Aztec's Noir. While these languages have slightly different characteristics, they offer similar capabilities. The speakers believe that in the next five years, developers will not necessarily learn a ZK-centric language but rather program in their traditional languages with an SDK or abstraction for expressing their intentions. However, the challenge lies in finding a universal representation across different types of circuits. There is also a need to address the soundness challenge when writing constraints, which suggests that the language may require a native decorator or some other unique feature. The speakers acknowledge the potential for numerous standards, but they believe that certain teams will focus on detailed cryptographic statements for specific privacy applications, while high-level languages will be used for making succinct and portable statements about computation.
00:45:00 In this section, Natalie asks about how zero-knowledge proofs and privacy will be adopted by the mass market. The speaker acknowledges that privacy, as a selling point, has not been very effective in the past. They believe that the real value of zero-knowledge proofs lies in the ability to express oneself more freely and fluidly online, allowing for more nuanced interactions and financial transactions. They suggest that it is not the privacy itself that will drive adoption but rather the ability to have multiple identities and reputations, which can lead to more credible statements and increased user activity. They also mention that startups that solely focus on privacy or zero-knowledge proofs might not be on the right track. The speaker references Zcash and mentions that they found Tornado Cash to be more successful in scaling than Zcash, but also notes that there has been some unfortunate news about Tornado Cash, with the founders getting arrested.
00:50:00 In this section, the speakers discuss the role of privacy in the base layer of technology and the importance of privacy in financial transactions. They agree that privacy is crucial for continued progress in digital money and that it should be preserved from peers. They mention that while hard privacy at the base layer may not be feasible, it should be a concern at the application layer. The discussion then shifts towards the integration of human expression and zero-knowledge proofs (ZK) in cryptocurrency. They emphasize the importance of individual empowerment and personal freedom in online interactions and express the desire for more nuanced expression facilitated by cryptography. They also mention their involvement in decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs) and situations where they couldn't fully express themselves due to protocol discussions. Overall, their focus is on creating technology that enables individuals to feel more free and human online.
00:55:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the challenges of expressing their voice and opinions online, as well as the limitations of reputation and anonymity in online interactions. They express the need for easier experimentation and the ability to invent new applications using zero-knowledge proofs (ZK), as well as the importance of infrastructure for complex interactions on the internet. The speaker sees a future internet that is more important to society and requires the inclusion of money and complex statements. They also mention the success of Tornado Cash as an application utilizing ZK. When it comes to knowing when to abandon an idea or continue pursuing it, one speaker emphasizes the importance of working on things they are passionate about and interested in.

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The speakers in the YouTube video discuss their passion for their work in the zero-knowledge proof space and the importance of working on things they truly believe in. They highlight the need to constantly reevaluate long-term goals and adjust strategies based on new information and trends, as well as the significance of user feedback in decision-making. They also address open problems in this field, such as improving the speed and efficiency of mobile devices in making zero-knowledge proofs. The speakers anticipate significant advancements in the next five years and stress the importance of balancing research and product development in cryptography and blockchain. They express gratitude for the discussion and hope that the audience feels optimistic about the future of zero-knowledge proofs.