Summary of Daniel Schmachtenberger: Steering Civilization Away from Self-Destruction | Lex Fridman Podcast #191

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00:00:00 - 01:00:00

Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the concept of the "anthropocene" and how human civilization is on a trajectory towards self-destruction. He believes that there are likely many intelligent alien civilizations out there, and that if we're going to survive as a species, we'll need to make rapid progress in social technologies to guide and control our physical technologies.

00:00:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the concept of the "anthropocene" and how human civilization is on a trajectory towards self-destruction. He believes that there are likely many intelligent alien civilizations out there, and that if we're going to survive as a species, we'll need to make rapid progress in social technologies to guide and control our physical technologies.
00:05:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the Drake equation, which suggests that there are likely billions of habitable planets in the Milky Way galaxy, and how this might impact human psychology. He also discusses the tic tac theory, which proposes that unidentified flying objects are actually advanced military aircraft. He concludes by saying that while there is still much to learn about these phenomena, it is worth pursuing explanations that do not involve extraterrestrial beings.
00:10:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the possibility of alien technology, stating that while it may be beyond the cognitive capabilities of humans, it is possible that they have similar perception systems. He also discusses the potential for government secrecy in regards to alien technology, as well as the inherent incompetence of bureaucracies.
00:15:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the possibility of interstellar travel using black holes as a means of communication. He speculates that such travel would be beyond the capabilities of current physics, but that it may be possible in the future if we evolve beyond our current level of understanding. He also mentions the concept of invasive species, and how one might be able to exist peacefully alongside another species if they are sufficiently different.
00:20:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the relationship between the individual and the group, and how this changes over time. He argues that humans have evolved most when they are in tribal environments, and that the modern world has removed many of these interactions.
00:25:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the idea that human consciousness is fundamentally different from that of other animals, and argues that coordination between humans is what gives birth to this consciousness. He believes that robots that convincingly simulate human consciousness would be capable of becoming conscious themselves.
00:30:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the different types of experiences people have and how they can't help but affect how people approach symbol grounding.
00:35:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the possibility that more advanced neural networks have deeper phenomenology, which he sees as evidence of the emergence of consciousness. He also talks about his work on calculating the brain's computational power and energy usage.
00:40:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how the brain does calculations so quickly that it takes 10 watts to run it, and how this translates to caloric needs for an average human brain. He also discusses how complex systems can be created from simple rules, and how one of the simplest examples is cellular automata.
00:45:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the emergence of complexity from simple rules, citing examples like flocking behavior and murmuration. He argues that while this is beautiful, it doesn't mean we can predict everything we know about the mathematics of these systems. He also mentions Stuart Kaufman and his book, "After Investigations: Towards a New Understanding of the Sacred." Kaufman is interested in highly non-ergotic systems, where organisms make choices based on forecasts of the future, rather than adaptive signals in the moment. He argues that humans are more unique than any other species, and that the variety of complex systems found in nature is evidence of this.
00:50:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the evolutionary process and how humans are unique in terms of their ability to imitate and change their environments. He also discusses the theory of Gerardian mimicry, which posits that humans are driven to imitate each other because it leads to a better understanding of the world. Schmachtenberger argues that humans are actually quite unique in the world and that our ability to change our environment has allowed us to become the apex predators of the planet.
00:55:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that because of our tool-making, we have increased our predatory capacity faster than anything else could, leading to the extinction of species and the depletion of the oceans. He goes on to say that, while humans are not the only predators on Earth, we are still behaving as predators, and this is the reason for our current problem - the over-application of the apex predator series. Schmachtenberger believes that, if we are to survive and learn new things, we need to move away from our genetic programming and evolve more slowly.

01:00:00 - 02:00:00

Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how human conflict can be reduced by understanding it as a result of the mimesis of desire. He compares this idea to the Joe Rogan theory of desire, which posits that all human problems are a result of not exercising enough. Schmachtenberger warns against taking ideas too far, and suggests that dancing may be a way to reduce conflict.

01:00:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the theory of mimesis, which states that humans learn what to want by watching others. This leads to conflict, as different groups of people want different things. Schmachtenberger suggests that instead of striving for communist utopia, we should aim to be self-determining and sovereign by choosing the environments we want to live in. This will allow us to learn and grow in ways we would not be able to otherwise.
01:05:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the idea of perspective-taking and synthesis, arguing that it is the most helpful cognitive disposition for navigating a complex world. He also discusses the idea of rigorous empathy, which is different than compassion because it includes a sense of humility and a desire to understand the experiences of others.
01:10:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that human conflict can be reduced by understanding it as a result of the mimesis of desire. He compares this idea to the Joe Rogan theory of desire, which posits that all human problems are a result of not exercising enough. Schmachtenberger warns against taking ideas too far, and suggests that dancing may be a way to reduce conflict.
01:15:00 The video discusses the concepts of complexity, simplicity, and chaos and how they relate to models of reality. Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that even though models of reality are never completely true, they can be useful for understanding and predicting behavior.
01:20:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how human civilizations tend to self-terminate, and how technological innovation and growth can help to prevent this.
01:25:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the advantages and disadvantages of being optimistic about technology and its potential consequences. He points out that there is a bias in assessments of technology, with some people being too naive, and others being pessimistic. He argues that there is a need for a new, more optimistic model of civilization that is not self-terminating. He discusses the concept of anti-fragility, which is a way of maintaining resilience in the face of negative consequences.
01:30:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the potential for catastrophic risks to civilizations and how World War II changed the way we think about preventing such risks.
01:35:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the global effects of exponential economic growth, the bretton woods agreements, and the increasing fragility of the world economy. He argues that a global solution is needed, and that rapid economic growth is no longer sustainable. He describes the various ways in which exponential economic growth can lead to problems, including increased fragility in the global economy, global food shortages, and more countries possessing catastrophic weapons.
01:40:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how exponential technology makes it more difficult to prevent mutual assured destruction, and how the psychological disposition towards construction can lead to problems such as the rise of dictators.
01:45:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the idea that love is preventing destruction at scale, and how it is a race between the cheapening of destructive weapons and the capacity of humans to express their love towards each other.
01:50:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that it is easier to imagine a dystopian future in which humans self-destruct, rather than one in which we solve the problems of environmental destruction and technological innovation. He argues that human psychology plays a role in this, and that social technology is necessary to steer humanity away from self-destruction.
01:55:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the various externalities that come with exponential technological advancement, pointing out that the war application is one of the more harmful. He also discusses how the more powerful the technology, the more likely it is to have negative second and third order effects.

02:00:00 - 03:00:00

In the video, Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how social media platforms like Facebook can have negative side effects on complex systems. He suggests that more rigorous metrics should be used to measure the amount of love these platforms add or subtract from the world. He also talks about how globalization, exponential technology, and our affect on each other is causing us to see failures and risks everywhere and how governments are resisting it.

02:00:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the social media platform Facebook and its effects on complex systems. He says that while the platform has great potential, it also has some negative side effects. He suggests that social technologies should be more rigorous in measuring the amount of love they add or subtract from the world.
02:05:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger talks about how watching criticism of others can make him worse, and how steering civilization away from self-destruction can be done by focusing on creating positive externalities. He suggests that similar principles should be applied to military strategy and decisions about going to war.
02:10:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger talks about how globalization, exponential technology, and our affect on each other is causing us to see failures and risks everywhere and how governments are resisting it. He also talks about how different cultural examples show that violence and compassion are very different distributions and that we need to look at what buddhism and Judaism show about education and positive deviations to see what is possible.
02:15:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how humans are naturally inclined towards seeking power and how these tendencies can be conditioned or discouraged. He also discusses the idea of starting over on a new planet, and how constructing systems to promote civic virtue and reduce power asymmetries would be beneficial.
02:20:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that systems that are resilient to all kinds of terrorist attacks, destructions, and challenges are possible, and that while rivalry may be bad in some contexts, it can also be beneficial. He discusses how rivalry can be measured and why it is important. He also discusses how increased comfort can be problematic and how the industrial revolution replaced happiness with comfort as the goal of optimization. Schmachtenberger argues that while rivalry may be bad in some contexts, it can also be beneficial, and that in order to achieve such a system, we need to struggle and experience discomfort.
02:25:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the need for metrics that are not based on economic growth or comfort, and proposes personal growth and love as good metrics for assessing a civilization's well-being.
02:30:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger identifies a number of metrics as being important in designing a desirable civilization, including indices of addiction and compulsive behavior. He also notes that comfort and addiction are close to one another, and that the ability to avoid addiction requires exposure to hypernormal stimuli.
02:35:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the importance of creating environments that develop healthy, happy, and moral individuals. He discusses a metric he uses to measure this, the compassion compersion axis. He argues that compassion and compersion are important values to nurture in cultures and individuals, and that they can be maximized through cultivating healthy emotional states.
02:40:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how the jealousy sadism axis is common, and how it manifests as feelings of envy and sadness when someone achieves success or happiness. He suggests that society should function in a way that reduces the amount of jealousy and sadism, and that individuals should strive to be compassionate and happy towards others.
02:45:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the difference between healthy and unhealthy competition, and how one can strive to have a meaningful life by taking in and appreciating the beauty of life in the present moment. He also discusses the need for a virtuous relationship between the mode of being, the mode of doing, and the mode of becoming in order to have a meaningful life.
02:50:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the various aspects of a meaningful life, emphasizing the importance of living in the present moment and being willing to experience fear and uncertainty. He believes that death is not necessary for a meaningful life, as long as we are willing to acknowledge its mystery and melancholy aspects.
02:55:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the idea of the afterlife, and how people tend to mature just shortly before they die. He also talks about the importance of compassion and empathy, and how death can create the urgency to do something meaningful with our lives. He then discusses how grateful he is for the future generations, and how we should respect our ancestors beyond their names.

03:00:00 - 04:00:00

Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the problems with the current state of civilization and how technology can be used to steer it away from self-destruction. He argues that global governance is necessary, but that it must be done in a way that is emergent and not imposed. He also suggests that education is necessary in order to help people resist manipulation and make better choices.

03:00:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that the state is not the best system for the future and that humans are better off living in tribes without centralized power.
03:05:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the concepts of binding and cleaving energy in relation to civilization, and how small-scale, personalized governance can be more effective than large-scale, impersonal governance. He argues that global governance is a necessary step in the future of civilization, but is afraid of the idea of a top-down system of imposition.
03:10:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the need for global governance, local governance, and relationships between them. He believes that cities will be a bigger focus for governance in the future due to their real-world basis and the ability for people to sense and act on their own. He also discusses the importance of democracy, and how it can be implemented in a way that is emergent rather than imposed.
03:15:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how technology can be used to steer civilization away from self-destruction, pointing to the emergence of the plow as an example. He argues that, while technology is values-neutral, it can still have a significant impact on human behavior and social systems.
03:20:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger argues that while technology can have effects on human behavior, it is not necessarily neutral. He says that while the tractor has effects on the environment and on the way that humans interact with each other, it is the change in behavior that is most responsible for the emergence of a more democratic and less oppressive society.
03:25:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how exponential technological progress leads to inherent problems with social systems, and how democracy has had difficulty reconciling these problems. He suggests that social technology could be improved by taking into account what people care about and trying to find a solution that benefits everyone.
03:30:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the importance of education and the role of the fourth estate in democracy. He argues that, if the goal of the fourth estate is to provide unbiased information about the world, then it is failing in its role. Schmachtenberger suggests that the internet may be able to help revive the propositional development process, which could help improve democracy.
03:35:00 According to Daniel Schmachtenberger, Wikipedia has a positive impact on society by enabling empathy and knowledge sharing. He also contends that it is important to maintain a healthy relationship between optimism and pessimism in order to be able to effectively innovate and address challenges.
03:40:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how the business model of Wikipedia is different than that of Facebook, and how this affects the way the platform is used. He also discusses the potential for technology to be used to develop citizens' capacities.
03:45:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how authoritarian states are using exponential technology to make better authoritarian nation states, and how this is harming open societies. He also discusses how we can use physical technology to help create social tech that is beneficial to all.
03:50:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses how social media can be addictive and how it can be used to manipulate people's emotions and beliefs. He argues that capitalism is no longer about business, but about managing and exploiting people's attention. He suggests that attentionalism is even more powerful than capitalism and that it can be used to control other people's behavior.
03:55:00 Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the need for social technologies to help people make better choices, and the need for comprehensive education in order to help people understand how to resist asymmetric information warfare.

04:00:00 - 04:15:00

Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the ways in which humanity is currently steering itself towards self-destruction, and how we need to change our problem-solving processes in order to address the speed and scale of the issues at hand. He also discusses his father, who taught him the importance of self-empowerment and working towards collective good.